portrait practice

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Mutual
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portrait practice

Post by Mutual » Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:37 am

Image

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Threshold
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Post by Threshold » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:16 pm

Gwahhhhh??!?!!

Uhh, no offense, whoever you are, but...
can you say, "I need photo reference" ?
I mean, I konw you say, "practice," but if it's practice, you should work this until the paper is either destroyed or the picture looks good. Do lots of these. Learn and religiously follow the face construction rules. (eyes halfway, nose 1/3 total, mouth 1/3 between chin and eyes, etc.)
I'm afraid a lotta people might be holding back on the replies because they don't want to step on toes...
So tell us what's going on in the picture, what you're trying to draw, etc.
I promise it'll help.

Mike Thompson
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Post by Mike Thompson » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:54 pm

Threshold: That was about the worst critique I've ever read. "Can you say I need photo reference" is pretty condescending. Even the untrained eye can tell there's some photo reference going on. You should applaud 'Mutual' for taking such a personal risk sharing his art.

Mutual: Keep at it. It's a good start. Don't be afraid to add some dark values. You'd be surprised at the results if you really dig in and draw without hesitation, and with some very bold shading. Here's what I mean:
Image
And I don't know about you, but Threshold's so-called facial construction rules were pretty strange. Not all faces are the same, trust me. When working from a photo, draw what you see, and continue to practice, practice, practice until your hand hurts.

trick
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Post by trick » Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:11 pm

Yeah, drawing is all about using your eyes. Draw what you see, and see what you draw.

When I draw from references, I always try to find some reference points, and figure out where each of them are in relation to each other. For example, in the drawing Mike Thompson posted, you can see that his eyes are about the width of one eye apart (as is usually the case), the left and right part of the bottom of the nose ends almost exactly where his left and right eyes end, ie if you drew a line from the right corner of the left eye (from our viewpoint) and the bottom left edge of the nose, the line should be very close to vertical. In the same way, the left edge of the left dimple is straight below the left edge of the left eye, the bottom edge of the right ear is about where the right end of right dimple is horizontally, and so on.

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Threshold
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Post by Threshold » Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:50 pm

Okay, a little qualification here.

I'm not (or I hope I'm not and don't think I am) one of those nasty little forum troll perverts who delights in tearing apart those who post one piece that I don't personally like. Condescending? Perhaps. I do tend to be somewhat on the frank side. However, if you'll be so kind as to check my commenting history, you'll see that I don't have my scope trained on Mutual.
But I also know 'e can deliver. So what's wrong with some prodding? To quote me,
"you should work this until the paper is either destroyed or the picture looks good."
(emphasis added)

Now, Mike Thompson (can I call you Mr. Thompson or just Mike?), I'd like to defend my "so-called facial construction rules" for drawing the head. I hope you won't be offended by my using your portrait piece for this example; it's really very good.
I said something like this:
Threshold wrote:(eyes halfway, nose 1/3 total, mouth 1/3 between chin and eyes, etc.)
First, I'll acknowledge that the "1/3" for the mouth was a typo. I meant "1/2". However, I stand by the rest of my observations.

Image
  1. 1) Eyes halfway up the head. Please note the green lines on the right. That is a scale dividing the head into very nearly fourths, or I am a stuffed turkey.
    2) Next, the nose 1/3 up the total height of the head. Look at the blue scale on the left. If that is not darn close to thirds, then I am cranberry sauce.
    3) Now I point again to the green scale. 1/4 of the way up, you should see a line for the mouth. Last time I checked, that is 1/2 the distance between chin and eyes. If not, I'm a pumpkin pie with ice cream.
    4) trick is right about the eye-width between the eyes (the yellow lines) and some other things, but that's less the issue right now.
These three scales have been composited over the face in red. Am I Thanksgiving dinner, or have I made myself sufficiently clear?

Mike Thompson
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Post by Mike Thompson » Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:43 pm

First, I'll acknowledge that the "1/3" for the mouth was a typo. I meant "1/2".
Good, glad you caught that.
Learn and religiously follow the face construction rules. (eyes halfway, nose 1/3 total, mouth 1/3 between chin and eyes, etc.)
I don't mind the reference lines you added to my portrait. It goes a long way explaining what you meant. Without them and the explanation in your last post, your wording above is still hard to follow. I also stand by the notion that not all faces follow these construction rules. The emphasis should still be on drawing what you see, and looking for relationships between features as Trick mentioned.
Uhh, no offense, whoever you are, but...
can you say, "I need photo reference" ?
When the words "no offense" precede a statement, it usually means something unkind is about to be said. I agree, Threshold, that compared to some of Mutual's other work, this piece is lacking in refinement. I just think you could have handled it with a little more class.
Now, Mike Thompson (can I call you Mr. Thompson or just Mike?),
It depends on how old you are, sonny. My third graders call me Mr. Thompson. Mike will do just fine. :)
...have I made myself sufficiently clear?
Yes, you have made your point, and hopefully you have listened to mine as well. BTW, I was thinking you were something far different than a turkey dinner.

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Threshold
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Post by Threshold » Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:33 pm

Agreed. Not all faces follow this. Particularly not cartoon faces, which sometimes completely depart from reality but still reflect humanity and human emotions.

Re: no offense.
An unsophisticated remark, admittedly. "...something unkind..." Spoken like a true schoolteacher.

Something different than a turkey dinner? do I want to know?


Mutual, if I haven't pissed you off and scared you off, and you're reading this, I'm sorry I destroyed this thread. Going back to my original... Well, it's just not up to your usual standard. What's really striking about this is A) the hairline could use some tweaking, B) the feature placement seems rather "off," and C) the teeth probably shouldn't be drawn one by one. I'd definitely like to see you work on this some more.

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jrr
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Post by jrr » Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:13 pm

hey there, nuff jibbajabba?

there are a few things i noticed on this image. it seems to me you started this drawing and then got lazy and just half assed it. the top half seems fine to me, with only a few flaws. the mouth area is a big distraction. drawing induvidual teeth is a bad idea. and the way you did it is much too sloppy and not very accurate. the sensitivity you showed on the nose, you should apply to the mouth area. follow your reference and if it doesn't make sense, think about it first, before you rush into drawing it. i did alittle draw over to show you what i mean

Image


and if you don't want to make any corrections, there's another direction to take this image.



Image
to the phamton zone!
Image

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