A comment on comments and crits

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lifelibertyland
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Post by lifelibertyland » Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:26 am

nofret, in reponse to the double edged sword comment. If i have time or if the work is interisting and asks for crits I will attempt to give a crit, especially in negledted threads where there isn't a bunch of "it looks good" posts. I was simply stating I don't think it's necessary to make such comments. But after reading some replies I can see many people favor them and respect thier opinions.


I feel like you're defending my stance on this topic with your story about your friend. She stopped posting because she got no comments/crits! Geez, I've been supporting constructive criticism and comments this whole time. my only gripe was the "its good" type of comments which as trick stated nicely before, "It may give you a warm fuzzy feeling for a while because someone out there actually likes your work, but it tells you nothing about why they think your work is great, or what's not so great, or what could be improved."
"Everything in my shop is the best," replied the butcher. "You cannot find here any piece of meat that is not the best."
At these words Banzan became enlightened.

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Nofret
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Post by Nofret » Mon Oct 24, 2005 1:06 pm

True true...
Though sometimes, I have trouble explaining why I like a piece. Sometimes I get a pure visceral response. Is it the line? The colour? The subject? The style? The technique? A bit of everything?
Sometimes I don't know what to write since I can't pinpoint exactly what gets me thrilled about a piece. Then we get into the "should I write nothing because I don't know how to write what it is I like, and not letting the artists know his piece is appreciated?" Is it better to say a little something nice rather than a big nothing?

Ok, ok, I'm exagerating here, I admit. :wink:
I will try and leave longer comments when I can of course!

But writing good comments can be hard! (especially if english isn't your first language).

Ah, it is easier to comment when there are problems with the pic. But then, one has to thread carefully because we don't know how the other person will react (or the age of the person posting). Tactful is the rule.

Sorry for rambling, just trying to put my thoughts together
:shock:

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Daedalus
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Post by Daedalus » Mon Oct 24, 2005 1:23 pm

"It may give you a warm fuzzy feeling for a while because someone out there actually likes your work, but it tells you nothing about why they think your work is great, or what's not so great, or what could be improved."

I understand, man. It does make sense. But with art, it doesn't always need to be said, no?

Can't people just like a pretty picture becasue they find it so pretty they say "Hey, man. That's pretty."

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lifelibertyland
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Post by lifelibertyland » Mon Oct 24, 2005 1:25 pm

I agree, writing crits is hard, sometimes harder than making work. but through crits you not only help others understand thier work I think you help yourself.
Well as for that big nothing... it all depends on the situation I suppose.
This is way waaaay off topic but it seems in western philosophy nothing is somewhat of a negative thing. In Daoist philosophy everything is achieved through nothing. Anyway, that's not nearly the half of it but just one concept, nor is it some kind of explination for why i might not leave a post on any certain thread. I just thought of it when reading your response. you weren't rambling... what I'm doing now is rambling heh


edit:
Daedalus, I'm by no means saying one can't enjoy the beauty of a piece for what it is. Many times I've seen a work and just thought, "wow, that's awesome" and that doesn't mean I should look for flaws or a reason not to like it, somethings things just are and you leave it at that. My main question is what all those positive one-liners are doing? I don't know really... apparently to some they're very helpful. But in the long run I don't think so.
"Everything in my shop is the best," replied the butcher. "You cannot find here any piece of meat that is not the best."
At these words Banzan became enlightened.

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Dek
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Post by Dek » Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:03 pm

And then again, we could get an influx of "taht sucks omfg" :)

I personally don't comment much, because I don't trust my artistic eye enough to judge other people's works yet ;) I don't draw as much as I want to - ahh the busy life - and so I don't have the experience probably required to see specific errors.

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Randy Dianogah
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Post by Randy Dianogah » Thu Oct 27, 2005 7:27 pm

man im lucky enough to get ONE comment, let alone a useful crit!! :?

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Grasshopper
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Post by Grasshopper » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:46 pm

I don't post that much, but when I do any positive comment, "keep up the good work", is very very encouraging. I understand that those kind of comments may not effect everyone that way, but I value them equally with more specific comments/critism.

Sure I would like a few more comments on what's wrong/how to improve, but I understand the reason others have already mentioned. Also as other have already said, I often look at a piece of art and think "wow, that's awesome", but can't tell you why.

What I love about this forum is the reasonableness of the members. On most of the other forums I particapated in, a thread like this one would have lead to widespread flaming/trolling.
I wish I was better

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Vince
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Post by Vince » Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:40 am

Generally, I try to be specific in my compliments, e.g. "I really like your palette in that one" or "You conveyed the expression really well." I think we sometimes don't know why our pieces work or exactly how they appeal to others, so I feel this helps.

If I don't like a piece, I say "taht sucks OMFG". No, seriously, I would only give a crit if someone explicitly asks for crits.

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Mike Laughead
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Post by Mike Laughead » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:09 am

While reading these posts I have been thinking about when and how I respond to artwork on the board. If I think the art is great, I comment with an "I love this piece for this reason..." But if the art is just okay, or plain horrible I don't say anything. I think most people posting art (myself included) can assume that a piece is not that great if people don't post anything about it. Am I right in assuming this?
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elisio
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Post by elisio » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:48 am

Mike Laughead wrote:I think most people posting art (myself included) can assume that a piece is not that great if people don't post anything about it. Am I right in assuming this?
i don't know. i often see great art here but don't feel compelled to post anything about it. it's not that clear cut. i tend to post when it's something either unusual or really fantastic, or when i have critiques to make. i suppose if you fare in the middle i'm not going to write anything, which seems harsh, i know...

e.

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lifelibertyland
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Post by lifelibertyland » Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:30 pm

Mike Laughead wrote: I think most people posting art (myself included) can assume that a piece is not that great if people don't post anything about it. Am I right in assuming this?
This is the very reason I made this thread! (I'm not about to go into it all over again, it's all there in previous posts. No offense, but this assumption really bugs me)


Most people whom you might think are bad are still finding their way and need the critiuqes the most (...or as I've learned sometimes need those "it looks good" comments :? )
I agree with elisio, sometimes if I see a piece that works, I won't make a comment because I feel thier going in the right direction and should keep going; but those that post work that might not be working I'll try to let them know what they need to work on.
"Everything in my shop is the best," replied the butcher. "You cannot find here any piece of meat that is not the best."
At these words Banzan became enlightened.

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Vince
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Post by Vince » Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:39 pm

I think I've decided, in the end, it takes all kinds, as the saying goes.

i.e., there is no perfect crit and perfect reply to a post.

I have my style, as I described above. Emphasize what's going right, and crit only if it's asked. Maybe some eagle-eyed person will come in and bluntly make harsh but accurate and valuable crits. That may be counterbalanced by some genial people who just want to keep encouraging people to make art.

Going even more broadly, the Flight forum itself has a character, one which distinguishes it from conceptart or whatever other forums are out there. I see it not so much as a matter of style or technique as it is a matter of commonly shared artistic values. Storytelling, character, and that intangible "spirit of the art" seem to be those values here. It might be why this board, as I frequently note, seems to be an oasis of decency and respect. It might be why the sexes are represented pretty equally. Or why the art shown here tends to be expressive, thoughtful and undeniably human. It might be why this is the only forum on the Internet I regularly post on.

As I said above, it takes all kinds; maybe some will take to being more critical. The initial, thread-starting question is certainly a valid one, but my suggestion is just to understand that Flight is what it is. And to get out of it what you choose to -- I've found that it's a lot. 8)
Last edited by Vince on Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Mike Laughead
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Post by Mike Laughead » Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:12 pm

Dang, you can't top that... brilliant.
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Joe Shig
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Post by Joe Shig » Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:26 pm

Vince wrote:Going even more broadly, the Flight forum itself has a character, one which distinguishes it from conceptart or whatever other forums are out there. I see it not so much as a matter of style or technique as it is a matter of commonly shared artistic values. Storytelling, character, and that intangible "spirit of the art" seem to be those values here. It might be why this board, as I frequently note, seems to be an oasis of decency and respect. It might be why the sexes are represented pretty equally. Or why the art shown here tends to be expressive, thoughtful and undeniably human. It might be why this is the only forum on the Internet I regularly post on.
Yay! I couldn't have put it better myself.

:D
--Joe.

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Daedalus
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Post by Daedalus » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:36 am

Uhm... what Vince said.

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